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The mayor`s response to Norm`s letter of August 6 is interesting. He says that Norm`s letter is not helping the "slowly mending council".
How does his criticism stand up against the "TEAM CLINT" group ? I would think that the group would be called "TEAM DEBARY. But then, it wouldn`t serve the mayor`s objective.
Our mayor gets transfixed by shiny objects. DeBary is not even close to being a "destination" town. Maybe someday but not in the near future. Creative thinking is always good but not when combined with compulsive and sub-rosa actions. People in Saxon Woods do not want the card room in OC and I understand why. However, putting it in DeBary affects even more people.
The mayor`s statements about high paying jobs and upscale restaurants are ludicrous. If restaurants won`t come here because of an inadequate "roof count" how does the card room solve that issue. Smoke, mirrors and BS.
I sent the following to the City Council and below it is the Mayor's response to the issues I raised:
On Aug 6, 2015, at 6:34 PM, email@example.com wrote:
This is why social media needs to be reigned in:
Mayor Johnson you wrote the following on DeBaryProud:
From Clint Johnson on DeBary Proud – 8/6/15:
….and anyone else at the meetings in the future:
If you hear things like that or someone is being rude, please stand up, gain attention from the chair, state the issue and we will ask them to stop or have them escorted out.
I advised (names deleted - Norm) of the same thing.
From the dias and in the process of doing my job, I don't have the ability to effectively monitor every person.
Also, if there's a little snide remark or exchange, I'll generally attempt to ignore it for the sake of peace. But if one of the two people in any given confrontation calls attention to it from the board, action will be taken.
Mayor, you used the word "half-assed" at a recent meeting when incomplete agenda items were being discussed. You've used profanity at meetings before and I even said this to your face in front of Warren Graham - why is it impossible for you to run a meeting without violating the rules of decorum? Mayor, when you indulge in such rudeness, may I gain the attention of the Vice Mayor, state the issue, and have you removed?
You may have your meetings interrupted more because of the "new rule" the Mayor has "created" on the FB social media posting. What the Mayor is referencing in his post is taken care of by an elected official calling for a point of order due to noise or interruption. If you don't hear it, it's not causing you a problem - but now it might. Now because of what the Mayor has posted, I guess at any moment a citizen or citizens might stand up and "gain attention from the chair" and some people in brown shirts will escort someone out? I don't know. Even if you don't hear the commentary your meeting might be interrupted. Before these new policies are passed on FB, the Mayor might want to talk to the Council first.
Mayor, when you say I "embellish" things, you show that you don't even know what the word means.
Mayor, when I ask you to clarify an issue that you raised at a meeting, raising money for some project, and you refuse to clarify your own issue, it is demonstrative of just how unable you are as a leader. And to dismiss it in a petulant tone goes to show how immature you are. You ran for a position that answers to the people, yet you refuse to answer to a person when asked to clarify an issue you raised.
The Mayor's Response:
This letter is not only an embellishment but an instigation meant to divide a slowly mending council, and any qualified elected official will immediately see through it.
I’ve offered you many opportunities to talk and work through whatever issues are causing you to be so obsessed in your attempts to debase my integrity; all of which were ignored or refused. I can take a hint and won’t persist with another but I pray you’ll find a way to work through the bitterness. It’s not healthy or productive.
Debary, Florida a city of old losers....we do not want anything in DEBARY. Nothing is good enough for the stinking City of Debary and all the old corpses that run it.
We just want it. Sunrail did not figure nights and weekend use into their budget. Really? How stupid is that? Well, they just wanted it and those numbers would add, according to the Sentinel article today by Dan Tracy, about 30 million dollars to the operating budget right off the bat. Sooooo, we'll leave nights and weekend use off and just deal with it later. The yearly budget is 35 million according to the same article. Soooo, the yearly budget is actually about 65 million if you want to ride the train at night and on the weekend...why would weekend service not be included?
The biggest complaint about Sunrail? No weekend service - that's a no brainer. We're being asked to change our language in our Comp Plan and Codes based on a picture most of which isn't actually being proposed. And I don't know if we have any information on the quality of the horse track being proposed - but some just want it. It's premature to say "Yes" or "No" to this project - we don't know enough about THE PROJECT either way yet. Gambling we know about - but not the project.
Mort did apologize a number of times for what he wrote to me. He admitted he wrote it and that it was over the top - other people have written in to tell me it was over the top and some family members have told me Mort was spot on.
I wouldn't like any "plan" that isn't honest and that purports to "propose" something it's not proposing.
Remember all those people that were lined up for the job fair in anticipation for the Debary Downs approval back in 08? They NEEDED WORK...but you and Shirley and JB and George Coleman and Lenny do not care about anyone else...because you have jobs or are on a government check.
Below are a number of emails Mort has sent in. I had to verify with Mort over the phone that he did send them as their was some confusion at first. But he did admit to sending them via email and/or through the website for publication. I used "JB"'s initials back in August when he disagreed with me on voting for Mayor - so I'm being consistent. But I did go the extra step to ask JB if I could put his name and he said fine. So I did. I'm only interested right now in 2015...but it looks like Costa is trying to pull a fast one again by putting forth a project he is NOT actually proposing. I'm not a journalist, so I don't have to have journalistic integrity. In the past I've defended Mort Culligan - read the emails below to see where that has gotten me in terms of just respectful disagreement between two human beings - not very far.
Regardless, the issue to keep at focus is next Wednesday - what exactly is Mr. Costa proposing? Changing our language when we don't have any details about the project. Unreasonable. Unreasonable.
So here are the emails:
Perhaps Norm can tell us what he has ever accomplished for the city of Debary, Florida?
Who is this JB person...what no name? I am easily located if you want to talk to me in person...eyeball to eyeball and toe to toe.
Norm why are you stabbing the Mayor in the back...why don't YOU PERSONALLY insult him like a MAN. Grow a pair NORM. Get in his face are you a coward Norm? Are you a coward NORM...get in his face, at least he is trying to improve the community with some jobs what are YOU doing? What are YOU doing, bragging about how you are right when you haven't a clue. What did you accomplish for Debary as councilmember?
How is Norm doing?
How are you doing motherfucker....send ole JB over to my house okay you motherfucker. Fuck YOU....you are a piece of shit....MC
I first took note of mort culligan and his boreish commentary when he would regularly trash our military. Not a word about our military these days; guess he really really admires his man, barack?
Fun to be right?
I was right in jokingly, sarcastically, and cynically predicting that the 20 million dollar value from 2008 which is now being touted at 30 million in the DBNJ and soon, so said the Great Carnak, 50 million…and then, BAM! there it was in print just hours later. Mort, your tone is becoming as shrill as Mica with Sunrail not long ago. Mica said, “We can’t pave our way out of this – we need Sunrail.” Now they are paving I-4 – 2 billion? Biggest FDOT project in the history of Florida. AND, I hear they are going to expand that project into Volusia….AND paving on 417 at the same time. Talk about not paving our way out of the problem.
If SOME people in Debary were a little less ignorant they would realize GAMBLING is all over Debary... at the Winn Dixie, every convenience store and place of business that wants the FLORIDA LOTTO. If some people in Debary were less ignorant they would realize the Florida Lotto is a WINNER and helps defray the cost of education for our wonderful 'fat pink' children.
Mort, the Walmart was voted in – that shows developers we want development. The City changed the Comp Plan to allow bigger stores like the two Dollar Stores – that shows developers we are open for business. Whether Dunkin’ Donuts is progress or not, I do not know. What I know is that the Race Trac gas station was voted down. Other businesses were voted in. The citizens that showed up said they wanted a “small town atmosphere”. Carson pushed for those workshops: will he listen? Mayor wants to hear: Your Voice – will he listen?
Let’s not relax gambling language until we see the project. I’ve said all along, “if it’s a good project, we need something at Sunrail”. You, Mort with this gambling project, whatever it is, are playing the part of John Mica with Sunrail: we need it, we need it, we need it – regardless. Now the DeBary Downs is worth 30 million. 7 years ago it was worth 20 million. Let’s keep putting it off another few years and it will be worth 50 million. I don’t care about the gambling – what is the project? What do our codes allow? What is the Future Land Use on that property? It’s not my “small town atmosphere”, it’s the people that showed up at the workshop – I was not one of them.
Gambling is going on in DeBary. This isn’t about gambling…what is the project that is being proposed?
Mort Clarifies the Issue –
Norm uses a tool from his selective memory box again concerning the John Likikas statement on Debary Downs.
Couple of things: I never talked to the Daytona Kennel Club in 2008. I simply read my packet, read the proposed agreement, read our codes and Comp Plan and made my decisions with a basis of denial. John correctly identifies the issues from 2008 in stating there was no timeline for development – no guarantee that additional phases would be built (where is the YMCA? It was passed by a Council to be built yet it was never built). “Pari-mutual” was afterwards expanded to blackjack tables, no specific amount of money was to go back to the City – but in the flyer put out by DeBary Downs it stated a specific amount. No zoning allowed what they proposed. There were all kinds of reasons to deny the proposal in 2008 – but let’s see what it is in 2015.
In fact, the more I’ve been going through POP Archives, I’m wondering if we’re going to get a replay of 2008. I’m going to be re-posting editorials from 2008 because while history doesn’t repeat itself it does rhyme. How much has Costa changed his plans? What exactly is the proposal for 2015? A horse track that goes unused but for a couple of races a year? All of John’s questions then are still applicable now UNLESS -
Unless the individual or Council member simply wants the project. And this is what Mort clarifies as it relates to the 2008 decision: I had plenty of reasons to deny - the reasons stated to approve rested on the threat of "low income housing" coming in at the time - never happened. We'll see what the veiled threat is in 2015. But up and against the very real reasons I listed based on the agreement offered is the response: we should have passed it. They just want it.
Much has been made of the visioning workshop from last year: did Gambling come up as something citizens want? Was it offered up as something we want? Where is it on the list? Did it make it on the list? 150 citizens gathered, very interested citizens came together - if they didn't even champion it, I take it as a "No". What I remember most is: keep us a small town with a small town atmosphere. But lets look at the list.
Secondly, Gambling is relegated to Industrial or perhaps light industrial zoning and usage - is Costa's Future Land Use Industrial? Light Industrial? I doubt it - we need an answer. Are we going to go against the Future Land Use? Isn't that what Walmart is about in part?
Gambling was discussed at the last workshop. It wasn't properly noticed on the Agenda so the citizens don’t know about it. Don’t talk about it too much. Don’t talk about the “Mayor’s Mailbox” with your Councilmembers but talk about it for 30 minutes with the City Attorney. We just want to do it, period, end of sentence. And if you have 3 votes, you’ll get it.
I was at the Planning and Zoning meeting a few weeks ago because there were rumors of gambling language being added to a TOD change – people were at the podium asking about it. People want to talk about this issue. Some are for it. Some are against it. But when there was just a rumor of it being passed at the Planning and Zoning, people showed up to ask about it. Why was it not noticed on the Agenda at the 4/18 workshop? That’s wrong. Paperwork was passed around – had a consensus been reached, it would have happened without the issue being legally, properly noticed. Back to John in 2008: “…disregarding the rules and laws….deception…”.
For some citizens and maybe a couple of Councilmembers, they are ready to say "Yes" to the project right here, right now, details be damned. And then when it is denied based on the details of codes and common sense, they become incensed. And that's fine.
Re; Norm's attacks upon Mayor Clint Johnson
At the second reading for the Walmart, CM Carson expressed confusion on how anyone could be against the gambling issue years ago and for Walmart. When the gambling came to us there was no zoning allowed for it. The applicants wanted that zoning just for them. CM Carson said "Yes" to that. But the Walmart, where the zoning is in place and the usage is in place, CM Carson said "No" to it. Try to make sense of that one. So where there is no zoning or usage - Yes. Where there is zoning and usage - No.
But let's get to the issue: The threat at the time was not a lawsuit but Section 8 housing if we said no to gambling. Where is it? We said "No". Where is the low income housing - which, by the way, is what you're really supposed to have around commuter rail. Also, the deal that was being offered to us in the Development Agreement was horrible and nothing was in place to force the other Phases to be built.
The referendum for stormwater to the tune of 10 million passed before I took office. We simply tried to spend that money and tried to get the best bang for the buck out of it.
I said "Yes" to some growth and "No" to others. I said "Yes" to a micro hotel that has not been built over by the IHOP. Said "Yes" to a development down by the river - the owner died - it was never built.
Having said all of that - when gambling comes back to DeBary for consideration, I hope Costa puts together a great plan because if it is, we need it to pay the debts for Sunrail - which is truly a boondoggle.
Mayor Johnson lied about his academic credentials on an official City application. Taking credit where it was not earned. As for the Mayor's Mailbox...is he doing that as Mayor? As a Citizen? The City is not having anything to do with it and he's doing it all on his own...that's what I heard about the fireworks when it first started - now the City runs it.
Mort, we will always disagree about the gambling issue - as to the other issues...we will see.
You may wonder why the Economic Development Corporation Team Volusia Inc. was no help securing the 90 new jobs Debary may get via the Wal Mart store. The answer is they do not do retail, nor does our Volusia County Economic Development Department.
However when the Daytona Speedway Corporations partners needed a FREE $20 million dollars back in June they claimed all the jobs numbers based on mainly retail jobs. $20M free grant dollars based on retail jobs numbers but we.... do not do retail!!!!
Why should a worthless Economic Development Department or an EDC Team Volusia Inc. get involved in retail in Debary, when the majority of jobs are retail? They want big high income jobs for the only city in Volusia County.....Daytona.
I asked a Volusia county government official who is supposed to help get these type jobs, he claims your local Chamber of Commerce.What could be more worthless than the local chamber of commerce?
The City of Debary is in debt ,yet it gives Team Volusia Inc. close to $10,000 annually for what? Of what value is the County EDC....except for getting grants for wealthy corporations? Retail is not part of our economy according to Volusia County agencies that are responsible for economic development.......that is the word.
Morton Culligan Debary, Fl.
5/22/2014: The Idiocy of Rudolph Conoley - The Quitter -
Grade: "I" for "Incomplete"
How soon Rudy forgets that he was in dissension about Mr. Parrott. He was too busy crying and whining over Ken Weaver, the candidate for CM that he wanted. He still whines about it. Shows him what Stormin Norman truly means!!!
"Insider 17" -
Editorial Comment from Norm: "Insider 17" is not a real name. On Rudolph's blog there was an "Insider 7" that posted stuff on there. It's not a person's real, legal name. Like Rudolph Conoley likes to use "Van" as a screen name or nickname - even on official election ballots Rudolph did not use his real, legal name - his name on both ballots in 2005 when he lost and in 2008, when he won only to soon quit, was "Van" in quotes; so this person who wrote into POP likes to use "Insider 17" in the same manner as Rudolph uses "Van". I'm sure both Rudolph and "Van" can appreciate that choice others have made as it is the same choice both Rudolph and "Van" have.
Where was the worthless Economic Development Corporation known as TEAM VOLUSIA INC. during the special Debary City council meeting concerning economic development for the city on January 14th??
Our naive Debary city council gave this worthless Team 'Scheme' Volusia EDC corporation almost $10,000 for what? So they could sit on their hands. The Wal Mart applicants needed help against the forces of negativity and NIMBYISM...but the worthless Team Volusia Inc. non profit corporate bums were no where as usual.
Where was the Volusia County EDC representatives.....no where, they are all about DAYTONA...that is all they care about as well.
Where was our Volusia County District 5 representative was he helping job growth associated with the Wal Mart store or keeping out of the fray so as not to lose any votes?
Why does the county and city keep giving this worthless non profit corporation money? Team Volusia INC. is all about DAYTONA...that is it.
The County EDC department needs new leadership or at least someone that cares about places other than DAYTONA.....we should drop all support to TEAM VOLUISA and give our county EDC department at kick in the butt. There are other places in the county other than DAYTONA.
Morton Cullgan non country club area of ..Debary,FL